MARGARET
BRENNAN: Mr. Homan, we saw that two immigrants were shot in the span of
a week. There was that one in Maine that was fatal just days after
another one in Houston. We also saw that man fleeing agents in Florida,
who then was struck and killed by a tractor-trailer.
I know you've
been trying to keep the department out of the headlines ever since that
streak in Minnesota that was deadly. How do you respond to those who
say, what's happening now looks like very little has changed?
TOM
HOMAN: Well, you know, first of all, we'll wait and see what the
investigations – how they play out, right. Because, you know, I don't
want to get ahead of an investigation on who's at fault, what exactly
happened because we all know, when these investigations happen, there's
going to be cell phone video, there may be city cameras, and, of course,
then you got witness statements and affidavits from the officer and
witnesses. So, we've got to let the investigations play out. So I don't
really want to comment on the investigations themselves.
But, you
know, I think, you know, Markwayne Mullin, you know, took some action in
concern of the safety of the agents and how we do operations and that's
why he did that, you know, that pause on enforcement on vehicle stops.
But,
you know, I – my concern is – I've never – I've done this since 1984.
My concern is I think a lot of the rhetoric that you see every day,
especially in sanctuary cities and at these protests that resist.
Members of Congress saying ICE isn't a real law enforcement agency. I
think that – I actually think that emboldens some people to say, I'm not
going to comply with ICE. And I think no matter what people think of
ICE, right, no matter what you think of immigration law, you should
always comply with law enforcement.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes. Yes.
But in the shootings in both Houston and Maine, the people who were
killed were not the intended targets. Have you caught the people you
were actually looking for?
TOM HOMAN: One of them I believe we
did. But, you know, that happens in law enforcement all the time. I mean
we're working, you know, you get leads on individuals and you say, OK,
well this subject lives at this house, he drives this car. And when that
subject leaves the house, you know, 6:00 in the morning, and someone
gets in that car from that house, you know, they assume, OK, this guys
and they'll do a vehicle stop. And depending on when they make that stop
and that person complies, either they're going to be arrested or
released. That's the way it's supposed to be.
So, you know, law
enforcement deals with mis identity every day across the country, not
just ICE, every law enforcement agency. I was a cop. I know – I know
that happens.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes. But these were fatal
shootings, of course, in Houston and in Maine. And in Houston, it was an
unmarked car. So, when you're saying, don't resist, these individuals
who were chasing the man who died, they didn't have markings on that
vehicle that would allow for him to know that they were ICE. It just
looked like a car coming after them in the videos.
TOM HOMAN: No.
They have emergency lights. Officers have insignia. So, when they get
out of that car and approach the car, you can clearly see they're law
enforcement officers. They can't – this is – these people –
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, in the video that has been public, it's not a marked car.
TOM
HOMAN: These people – I'm not saying it's a marked car, but they have
emergency lights and sirens. So, when they pull someone over, they're
going to activate their emergency lights. A lot of – a lot of police
departments – I'm in New York City right now. A lot of NYPD officers are
driving unmarked vehicles. And that helps them find people that don't
want to be found, right?
So, you know, but bottom line is, we'll
see when the investigation plays out, but they'd be alive today if they
simply complied with a vehicle stopped by federal law enforcement. Just
comply.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
TOM HOMAN: You can – if you
don't think you're being treated right and had no reason to stop you,
then there's avenues to take them to court. Just sue. Get a lawyer and
argue in court.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, the family of the man in
Houston said they – he thought he was being robbed because it was an
unmarked vehicle. Not that it was law enforcement at all.
TOM
HOMAN: They had emergency lights. They activate emergency lights. Blue
lights. You know – you know, in my vehicle I drive where I'm with my
security detail we have emergency lights.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You've seen that on video because we haven't?
TOM HOMAN: Seen what on video, ma'am?
MARGARET
BRENNAN: That there were lights. Because in the videos that we've seen,
there aren't. And because there weren't body cameras, it is hard to
substantiate some of what you are saying.
TOM HOMAN: OK. OK. Well, I have not seen the videos.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
TOM
HOMAN: But I'm saying, our vehicles are equipped with emergency lights.
Now, if they didn't activate the lights, again, I haven't seen that
video. If they didn't activate the lights, then there's an issue there,
right?